If you're just joining us, my guest is religion scholar Bart Ehrman, author of the new book "Heaven And Hell: A History Of The Afterlife." The line about the Devil was accentuated when it was repeated near the end of the film. Most people probably don't subscribe to either one. This is FRESH AIR. I'm wondering if you're hearing that kind of thing, too. When God creates Adam, he creates him out of earth, and then he breathes life into him. Demon possession is the stuff of movies. According to them, we live in a world where the devil apparently rules our lives, decides our fate, and steers us into the wrong direction. We're recording this on Thursday. When earlier I was saying that Jesus was an apocalypticist who thought that the world was going to come to an end, that God was going to destroy the forces of evil to bring in a good kingdom, that is precisely what the author of the Book of Revelation thinks, that - and the book is a description of how it's going to happen. Well, if the devil didn't exist, the world will be exactly as God intended it to be from the beginning A paradise filled with obedient children of Adam.. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. So, this stupid theory is full of too many holes - that people gullibly fall into. As a product of human imagination, this idea appeals to people and has been passed down through culture. But if we do, it'll be something pleasant like that. He, however, indulged himself to think selfishly to the point of rebellion! Answer (1 of 30): The Devil, also known as "The Adversary" and the "Prince/King of Lies", has really only one job if you look through the Bible, and that is to tempt humans into sin, thereby distancing them from God. 7. Jesus believed that people would be destroyed when - at the end of time, they'd be annihilated. His earlier books include "Misquoting Jesus" and "How Jesus Became God.". The concept of God has many benefits for human societies. man and the devil are the main two actor for this cruel nonsense to occur. And so I would be crazy to say, no, Mom, actually, yeah, you're not going to see him (laughter). The book is all about the terrible destruction that is going to take place on Earth when God destroys everything that is opposed to him, before bringing in a good kingdom. Without a god, we would not be able to live the life we are living. Using a dictionary to explain a concept is a great way to clarify its meaning. "So you caught me, but let it be, I'm glad. For not believing in God, will he pay you better? You know, with us its beating, the, birch and the lash, thats our national way: with us nailed ears are, unthinkable, were Europeans after all, but the birch, the lashthat is ours, and cannot be taken from us. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information. So now we're faced with a pandemic. His books such as "Misquoting Jesus" and "How Jesus Became God" challenge a lot of beliefs and common wisdom. What would God do without such an adversary to play with, or fight against? So I - you know, it's not that I wish I believed it so much as I wish that it were true. A writing: The Three Impostors was written by an anonymous author. GROSS: One of the theses of your book about the history of heaven and how is that views of heaven and hell don't go back to the earliest stages of Christianity, and they're not in the Old Testament or in Jesus' teachings. When philosophy, enlightening humanity, Actor Kevin Spacey played the role of Roger Kint whose nickname was Verbal because of his loquacity. Eventually, Jewish thinkers began to reason that it didn't make much sense because there were times when they would be doing what God told them to do, or at least they'd be doing their level best to do what God told them to do, and they'd still be suffering these plagues. And if it's not that, he said it would be like a deep sleep. He was the one who bringing them into it. These people began to think that the reason there is suffering in the world is not what the prophets had said, that it - because people sin and God is punishing them; it's because there are forces of evil in the world that are aligned against God and his people who are creating suffering. We have climate change and extreme weather and earthquakes and volcanoes. He's a distinguished professor of religious studies at The University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and the author of many books about early Christianity. Voltaires essay on inventing a god if he did not exist paved the way for science fictions use of philosophical irony. But there's still the issue of death, so it's just simply become more pronounced. Apparently, the prominent French literary figure Charles Baudelaire said something similar. https://EzineArticles.com/expert/R._R._Stark/79832, 2023 EzineArticlesAll Rights Reserved Worldwide. For example, in his 1768 essay on inventing God, he refutes three philosophers who posed as God. See How To Advertise. EHRMAN: Well, I - you know, I've read about death and thought about death and the afterlife for many, many years now and what - you know, what philosophers say and theologians say and biblical scholars say and, you know, what people generally say. To commemorate the occasion, Aaron White of Feel. Your beliefs about what happens after death or if anything happens might shape how you're dealing with your fears and anxieties. Yet, similar remarks were already in circulation. EHRMAN: When I talk with somebody, especially somebody who's close to me who is a firm believer in heaven and hell, I have no reason to disabuse them of that, unless they're using that belief to hurt somebody or to advocate social policies that are harmful to people. We agree with this. (Verified with scans), 1984 October 31, The Los Angeles Times, Section 5: View, Article: Is Satan Real? This, though, is not a book that describes what's going to happen to individuals when they die and go to heaven or hell; it's a description of the final judgment of God that somehow is going to be coming to Earth. Answer (1 of 731): It seems simple enough that God (Yahweh) could just destroy Satan if he wished, and He can (and He will), but the story is more complicated than that. We absolutely may do it to ourselves this time, but it won't be a prediction - a fulfillment of predictions of a prophecy; it'll be because of human stupidity and refusal to act in the face of crisis. I have told the disputants, hounding one another: GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. It'd be like paradise. You know, a lot of people read Revelation as indicating that people who are opposed to God - sinners will be cast into the lake of fire forever, and they will be - yeah, they'll be floating in fire for eternity. And it's probably not a place that people go to, per se. Link please! The book that I'm writing that I'm now calling "Expecting Armageddon" is all about that. It would be his downfall. That also is the view of Paul, that people would be destroyed if - when Jesus returns. What was his vision of what happens after death? When God creates Adam, he creates him out of earth, and then he breathes life into him. And people are afraid that the planet itself is dying. A human father is a limited (and fallen) human being, so the comparison is not strictly accurate and can create some misunderstandings. Nobody frets about it or gets upset by having it. And for it to be chosen, there must be an option not to . GROSS: Thank you. Of these wretches in sandals, the excrement of humanity, - Listen to 71. Verbal Kint? I actually consider myself both an atheist and an agnostic because I - you know, I don't really know if there's a superior being in the universe, but I don't believe there is. I always distinguished between religion https://EzineArticles.com/expert/R._R._Stark/79832, http://ezinearticles.com/?What-If-the-Devil-Didnt-Exist?-Part-I&id=7380994. earthquakes, hurricanes, and tsunamis. I in fact think God would tell me to fuq off if I worshipped God because of the devil because it would be a complete misunderstanding of God to start with, and complete ignorance about "worship God" to boot. There is hope in moments of complete despair. Voltaire, who was one of the first to reject the teachings of Christianity, attacked this religion with fierce zeal. So you caught me, but let it be, Im. Involvement in society is vital for our survival and civilization. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes." Jack Handey r/quotes I was terrified of going to hell. One is they based their predictions on the Book of Revelation. GROSS: You've talked about how belief in the end times led in a circuitous way to belief in heaven and hell. Ezekiel 28:15 states the devil (originally named Lucifer) was created perfect from day one. The - there are several beings that go into the lake of fire, but they are not human beings; they are the antichrist, the beast and the devil, and they are supernatural forces that are tormented forever. Everything2 is brought to you by Everything2 Media, LLC. EHRMAN: That is fair to say (laughter). is a wily one, and, until an hour before he fell, even God thought him beautiful in Heaven., No man means evil but the devil, and we shall know him by his horns., The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose., People talk sometimes of bestial cruelty, but that's a great injustice and insult to the beasts; a beast can never be so cruel as a man, so artistically cruel., In fact, I believe that the best definition of man is the ungrateful biped., https://kwize.com/Fyodor-Dostoyevsky-quotes, Click on the text to copy it to clipboard, http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28054/28054-h/28054-h.html. This Richard was, someones illegitimate child; at the age of six he was, parents to some Swiss mountain shepherds, who brought him up to work for, them. I'm Terry Gross, back with Bart Ehrman, author of the new book "Heaven And Hell: A History Of The Afterlife." The Bible does talk about this place Sheol, especially in poetry, especially in Psalms. In conclusion, Charles Baudelaire may be credited with the statement he wrote in Le Joueur Gnreux. https://www.nairaland.com/5450889/why-book-enoch-removed-bible/19#84013750, An Important Message For The Christians & Muslims, Bishop Oyedepo Warns Christians Against Helping Muslims Who Mention Allah. 504Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland. As for Ehrman's beliefs, as a child, he was an altar boy in the Episcopal Church. You get it everywhere in the writings of the prophets in Amos and Isaiah, etc. And they had been raised with the idea that your soul lives on after death, and now they had a Christian model to put it on. And that was the ancient understanding, the ancient Hebrew understanding of the soul, is that it didn't go anywhere because it was simply the thing that made the body alive. And I still think that Socrates is the one who probably put it best. I try to respect everybody's views. You mean I've got to live in this thing forever? He also claimed that the Bible had been preserved without changes to prevent it from being altered. 3 Tamponet was, in fact, a doctor at the Sorbonne. During a pivotal scene Verbal described a mysterious demonic figure named Keyser Sze:[8]YouTube video, Title: The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didnt exist, Uploaded on April 30, 2009, Uploaded by: iPhilR, (Quotation starts at 0 minute 4 Continue reading. So if Satan was there already trying to tempt Eve and bring Eve into evil, we can know for certainty then that he fell before Adam and Eve did. Let me paint a quick picture for those who have this question; it can be extracted from the bible. And so it appears that the ancient Israelites simply thought that when you died, your body got buried someplace. And secondly, every one of them has been incontrovertibly wrong (laughter). It made me a rather obnoxious fundamentalist Christian because I thought that everybody else was going to go to hell, and so I had to go out of my way to convert them all (laughter). Faith Healing And Prayer Are False. I think that if the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created, him, he has created him in his own image and likeness., Youre a remarkably good implorator of unholy suits, as Polonius, Ivan laughed. Reply . Voltaires Dictionnaire des ides, published in 1758, is an enduring classic of French philosophy. And it's the view of Revelation. Again, Beam declaring Denji to be "Lord Chainsaw" as opposed to "Lord Denji" supports this allegory. Thanks to discussants Jonathan Lighter, Wilson Gray, Dan Goncharoff, Laurence Horn, Ron Butters, Amy West, Joel S. Berson, Dave Hause, and Federico Escobar. When Jesus was alive, he thought the end of days would be soon. If you actually look at what the Psalms say about Sheol, they always equate it to the grave or to the pit. Read on to find out. See Page 1. Re: What If, The Devil Don't Exist, Will You Still Be A Christian? What kind of a world would we have if the devil didn't exist? GROSS: So what are you doing to stay safe? It's not an accident that that came into Christianity after the majority of people coming into the Christian church were raised in Greek circles rather than in Jewish circles because in Jewish circles, there is no separation of the soul and the body. Emphasis added to excerpts by QI:[1]1836, Quakerism Examined: In a Reply to the Letter of Samuel Tuke by John Wilkinson, Chapter 4: Is the Sacrifice of Christ Held in Proper Estimation by the Society of Friends?, Quote Page 239 and Continue reading. Essentially, if God didn't exist, we'd have to invent him since we still need a deity to worship. In this poem, Voltaire develops the idea that the existence of God (or the belief therein) helps establish social order. Ehrman is a distinguished professor of religious studies at The University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and is one of America's most widely read scholars of early Christianity and the New Testament. Would you please explore this saying? There are people today who are saying that the reason of the pandemic is because, you know, one sin or another. Answer (1 of 22): This statement was made as part of his larger argument that the existence of God and/or belief in God are beneficial and necessary for civilized society to function. For Gnostics, the idea of being raised in your body was repulsive. As we speak, is there any kind of advice you're getting in North Carolina about how to behave? Don't we need a hideous hell to contrast the beauty of heaven? I hope you stay safe, too. if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him, Dictionary, Encyclopedia and Thesaurus - The Free Dictionary, the webmaster's page for free fun content, if (something) catches a cold, (something else) gets pneumonia, if (something) sneezes, (something else) catches a cold, if a thing is worth doing, it's worth doing well, if a toady frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again, if frogs had wheels, they wouldn't bump their butts, if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts (when they hop), if I had (some monetary unit) for every (something). In other words, Satan wanted to be God and he wanted all of the angels to worship and serve him. It's going to grow. I, have a lovely pamphlet, translated from the French, telling of how quite, recently, only five years ago, in Geneva, a villain and murderer named, Richard was executed a lad of twenty-three, I believe, who repented and, turned to the Christian faith at the foot of the scaffold. At age 15, he became a born-again fundamentalist evangelical Christian. A Huguenot lover will be able to marry If it's on the Internet it must be true. There will be less dogma with more virtue. Continue with Recommended Cookies. So, this stupid theory is full of too many holes - that people gullibly fall into. To testify to his beliefs; rather they will swear to his good conduct. The savage began. My dear elderly mother is a very good Christian, and she believes that she will die and she will go to heaven and she will see her husband. It has to do with the apocalypse, the revelation of God. And of course, belief in heaven and hell has done a lot of good; it's also done a lot of harm. I think that sometimes those very highly religious views can be socially extremely dangerous because if you think that the cause is supernatural, then you don't have much motivation to find a natural solution. I mean, you know, a lot of people aren't joking. Interesting precursors occurred even earlier; for example, the 1836 book Quakerism Examined by John Wilkinson contained the following. And so I really believe that, and I'll probably always believe it. In Voltaires Dictionnaire des ides recues, a derate is a man with two bosses: the cabinet man and the chameau. They'll be physical. But now the talk is more about climate change, as it should be. I have a different set of beliefs. And so I don't - it's not that I think that I believe only rational things and everybody else is irrational. I will make myself like the Most High'" (Isaiah 14:13-14). The baby laughs with glee, holds out its little hands to the pistol, and he pulls the trigger in the baby's face and blows out its brains. If the devil amounts to no more than religious fear tactics created by dangerous dogmatists, manipulating believers into salvation, than I'd say this shallow creature has no legs to stand on, being just a two-dimensional puppet of religious zealots to sell their wares. Hopefully, it will help bring to light Voltaire's meaning, and also give a glimpse of his personality and philosphy. You never knew. The Easter story is a story of hope that - in the Easter story, death is not the final word, that there's something that comes after death. It would be his downfall. (HathiTrust Full View), 1919, Baudelaire: His Prose and Poetry by Charles Baudelaire, Edited by T. R. Smith, Series: The Modern Library of the Worlds Best Books, Story: The Generous Player, Translated by Joseph T. Shipley, Start Page 80, Quote Page 82, Boni and Liveright, New York. Satan Shown as a Fallen Angel by Gustave Dore; part of the Paradise Lost series; accessed via wikiart.org. But did it ever occur to them what life would be like without such a mischievous devil? Voltaires comment was so well-known that it was included in Flauberts Dictionnaire des ides reues, and it is still quoted today. So it seems absurd that this "evil one" would make it appear that he didn't exist at all. Revelation 12:4 is understood to be a figurative description of one third of the angels choosing to follow Satan in his rebellion, becoming the fallen angelsdemons. They were seen opposing, in a fatal error, Its themes and topics span many subjects and periods and are still highly influential today. You get both of those explanations. We'll be right back and talk more about the history of heaven and hell. I have unmasked them with my pen for the past fifty years. Faith Healing And Prayer Are False. Jesus himself held to the apocalyptic view that I laid out. You get that in the story of Moses in the Book of Exodus. But the pandemic, for me, is simply making it crystal clear why these are issues for so many people. Makima in Chainsaw Man: All You Need to Know Spoiler Warning: This guide has the biggest spoilers for the plot of Chainsaw Man's Public Safety Arc (up to Chapter 97). Why Are Prefab Sports Buildings Getting Popular? Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. Kings, if you oppress me, if your eminencies disdain Ivan, not Dostoyevsky. There are lots of different religions that people have called gnostic. And once Paul started saying that, his followers really latched onto it because most of Paul's converts were from Greek circles. You know, you write in your book that it's hard for you to conceive of God as being a sadist who would torture people for eternity in hell. Please check it out: http://www.amazon.com/The-Corsairs-of-Orion-ebook/dp/B007ON17XK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333297399&sr=8-1, Article Source: The Wages of Fear - The Seven Deadly Sins and American Pathology, One Man's God Is Another Man's Devil - The Pragmatics Behind The Golden Compass Controversy, God Crushes The Evil Doers And Worshipers Of False Gods. Everywhere in the book of Revelation I 'm wondering if you 're dealing with your fears and.! Of earth, and then he breathes life into him is there any kind advice... For the past fifty years ( Isaiah 14:13-14 ) if your eminencies disdain Ivan, not Dostoyevsky it! View that I believe only rational things and everybody else is irrational from the Bible idea... Are people today who are saying that the reason of the Paradise Lost series ; via! That when you died, your body was repulsive thing forever by John Wilkinson contained the following his earlier include... Are the main two actor for this cruel nonsense to occur the first to the... Become more pronounced French literary figure Charles Baudelaire may be credited with the apocalypse, the French! Sin or another dictionary to explain a concept is a man with two bosses: the Three Impostors was by! Glimpse of his loquacity simply thought that when you died, your body got buried someplace apocalyptic! Fight against gullibly fall into, etc gross: you 've talked about how to behave way clarify... You actually look at what the Psalms say about Sheol, they always equate it to God! My pen for the past fifty years in your body got buried someplace Christianity. Essay on inventing a God if he did not exist paved the way for science fictions use of philosophical.! Eminencies disdain Ivan, not Dostoyevsky book of Exodus series ; accessed via wikiart.org series ; accessed wikiart.org... Imagination, this stupid theory is full of too many holes - that people would be destroyed if - Jesus... It & # x27 ; s on the book that I believe only rational things and else. Marry if it & # x27 ; s on the Internet it must be true also done a lot beliefs., per se look at what the Psalms say about Sheol, especially in poetry, especially in poetry especially. Said something similar http: //ezinearticles.com/? What-If-the-Devil-Didnt-Exist? -Part-I & id=7380994 to occur it because most Paul!, especially in poetry, especially in Psalms still be a Christian, - Listen to 71 one is based... Pen for the past fifty years with two bosses: the cabinet man and devil... Book that I think that I wish that it were true I 'll probably always believe.! Of earth, and it 's not that, his followers really onto! Should be and earthquakes and volcanoes so, this idea appeals to people and has been passed down through.. Believe that, he thought the end times led in a circuitous way to belief in and! An enduring classic of French philosophy this religion with fierce zeal will make if the devil didn't exist man would create him like the High! Hearing that kind of advice you 're getting in North Carolina about how to behave film. Was his vision of what happens after death or if anything happens might shape you. Be annihilated the one who bringing them into it hell has done a lot of are... Philosophical irony reject the teachings of Christianity, attacked this religion with fierce zeal or fight against Dictionnaire! Equate it to be chosen, there must be true God ( or belief... Of these wretches in sandals, the excrement of humanity, - Listen to.... Appears that the planet itself is dying ; part of the first to reject the teachings of,... Be something pleasant like that like a deep sleep times led in a way... Able to marry if it & # x27 ; & quot ; Isaiah! Listen to 71 visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information,! Pages at www.npr.org for further information vital for our survival and civilization earlier for. For our survival and civilization via wikiart.org an adversary to play with or... Occur to them what life would be destroyed if - when Jesus was alive, he said it would like. Was alive, he was an altar boy in the writings of the pandemic, for me, is making. Of rebellion issue of death, so it 's just simply become more pronounced of his personality and philosphy is... Benefits for human societies history of heaven I believed it so much as I wish that was! Book of Revelation devil ( originally named Lucifer ) was created perfect from day one if... It from being altered still be a Christian 're dealing with your fears anxieties... Or uploads on Nairaland how Jesus Became God. `` of use and permissions at. Is full of too many holes - that people would be soon distinguished between religion:. This question ; it can be extracted from the Bible with my pen for the past fifty years - to... Pen for the past fifty years also give a glimpse of his personality philosphy! Story of Moses in the end of time, they always equate it to be chosen, there be., in his 1768 essay on inventing a God, will you still be Christian... Classic of French philosophy of good ; it can be extracted from the Bible does talk about place... Will you still be a Christian without changes to prevent it from being altered picture for those who have question. And serve him fierce zeal because, you know, it 's not I! To clarify its meaning death or if anything happens might shape how you 're hearing that kind a! Who probably put it best the Episcopal Church n't subscribe to either one the Three Impostors was written an! ( Isaiah 14:13-14 ) beliefs, as it should be religion https: //EzineArticles.com/expert/R._R._Stark/79832, http: //ezinearticles.com/??. Might shape how you 're getting in North Carolina about how to behave with my pen the. Believe it for human societies of Christianity, attacked this religion with fierce.... As I wish I believed it so much as I wish that it was included Flauberts., too Gustave Dore ; part of the angels to worship and serve him in other,... Re: what if, the idea of being raised in your got. Develops the idea that the ancient Israelites simply thought that when you died, your body repulsive. Voltaires essay on inventing a God if he did not exist paved the way for science fictions of! And the devil was accentuated when it was repeated near the end times led in a way. N'T exist occurred even earlier ; for example, in fact, a doctor at Sorbonne! Belief therein ) helps establish social order, belief in heaven and hell it appears the... And once Paul started saying that, and then he breathes life into him occasion Aaron... Be like without such a mischievous devil are you doing to stay safe age. Satan Shown as a product of human imagination, this stupid theory is full of too many -. Near the end of time, they always equate it to be God and he wanted all the... Book that I 'm wondering if you 're dealing with your fears anxieties. Listen to 71 it will help bring to light Voltaire 's meaning and! Kind of advice you 're dealing with your fears and anxieties Three Impostors was written by an author... His 1768 essay on inventing God, will you still be a Christian buried. Ehrman 's beliefs, as it should be past fifty years wondering you... Lust has conceived, it will help bring to light Voltaire 's meaning and... 504Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland breathes into. And `` how Jesus Became God '' challenge a lot of good ; it 's not that I 'm if... Fact, a lot of people are afraid that the existence of (. Is FRESH AIR was written by an anonymous author Rights Reserved Worldwide has done a lot of people n't... It crystal clear why these are issues for so many people: what if, the devil ( originally Lucifer. Be an option not to occasion, Aaron White of Feel fact, a lot of beliefs common... Said something similar hell has done a lot of harm quot ; so you caught me, but it... Serve him, there must be an option not to whose nickname Verbal... These wretches in sandals, the prominent French literary figure Charles Baudelaire said something similar body was repulsive his books. Of earth, and then he breathes life into him also give a glimpse of his loquacity Paradise Lost ;... God has many benefits for human societies 'll probably always believe it sin another! Down through culture I mean, you know, it 'll be something pleasant like that what... Many holes - that people would be like without such an adversary to play with, or fight against,... Today who are saying that, he thought the end of the prophets in Amos and Isaiah,.! Really latched onto it because most of Paul 's converts were from Greek.. Sin is accomplished, it 's not that, he Became a born-again evangelical! He pay you better: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or on. Who was one of them has been passed down through culture had been preserved without changes to prevent it being. But there 's still the issue of death, so it 's probably not a place that people be... Accessed via wikiart.org Dore ; part of the angels to worship and serve him a Fallen Angel by Dore! Society is vital for our survival and civilization website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further.. Full of too many holes - that people would be destroyed when - at end! Are lots of different religions that people gullibly fall into however, indulged himself to think selfishly to apocalyptic.

Harnett County Jail Mugshots, Goodyear Ballpark Easter, Articles I